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    Element's True Ratings

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    • element element
      LEGEND XBOX S|X
      last edited by
      LEGEND XBOX S|X

      Some of you might remember my True Rating calculations from last year. Some of you might have zero idea what it is. What ever happened to that?

      In case you didn't know, they never left! True Ratings are calculated on 2KDB and possibly somewhere else... (stay tuned). True Ratings are a calculation based on the attributes of a card, weighted on importance per position (passing accuracy matters a lot for a PG, but not as much for a center, rebounding vice versa).

      For example, here is DM Jayson Tatum's:

      3ea3f0ac-57e6-4ab4-b563-389799fc52bb-image.png

      @jdealla and I really want to push this even further to get other factors involved, like badging, animations, height, etc. Those are a little tricky because some of them are subjective (e.g. 6'3" is too short for a PG? 6'10" too short for a center?) but I recognize that purely attribute-based calculation leaves out some important details. However, it is a great baseline to see past the overall rating / card tier that 2K assigns as they can be incredible misleading (in both ways -- cards are underpowered for their tier or are budget monsters who play like opals/DM's).

      I just wanted to get the conversation going again and give you a hint of things to come. For now, based on the traditional True Rating calculation, here are the top 5 cards per position as of today:

      Point Guards

      Russell Westbrook - 99 - IDOLS Series II - 98.07
      Stephen Curry - 99 - Warped Reality - 97.29
      Derrick Rose - 99 - Retro - 96.42
      Grant Hill - 99 - Out of Position - 96.39
      John Wall - 98 - All Star Spotlight Sim Completion Rewards - 96.18

      Shooting Guards

      Michael Jordan - 99 - Pantheon All Star - 97.39
      Tracy McGrady - 99 - Radioactive - 96.5
      Carmelo Anthony - 99 - IDOLS Series II - 96.03
      J.R. Smith - 99 - Season Ultimate Rewards - 95.91
      DeMar DeRozan - 99 - Glitched - 94.45

      Small Forwards

      Larry Bird - 98 - IDOLS Series II VIP - 93.95
      Jayson Tatum - 99 - Boston Celtics - 93.93
      Billy Owens - 98 - IDOLS Series II VIP - 93.91
      Rudy Gay - 98 - Warped Reality - 93.87
      Chris Webber - 98 - Out of Position - 93.16

      Power Forwards

      Zion Williamson - 99 - Pantheon All Star - 96.54
      Giannis Antetokounmpo - 98 - Radioactive - 94.26
      Paul Millsap - 98 - Glitched Market Reward - 91.45
      Anthony Davis - 97 - IDOLS Series II - 91.35
      Rui Hachimura - 98 - IDOLS Series II VIP - 91.33

      Centers

      Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 99 - Radioactive - 97.02
      Blake Griffin - 99 - IDOLS Series II VIP - 96.88
      Shaquille O'Neal - 99 - Warped Reality - 96.83
      Wilt Chamberlain - 99 - Glitched - 96.66
      Kevin Garnett - 99 - IDOLS Series II - 96.13

      In this quick and dirty look, players are only categorized in their higher True Rating position, so someone like Zion who is the best SF, is only listed in PF because his rating is higher there. Which is why Larry Bird, generally not considered an elite card, is the #1 rated SF.

      Let me know your thoughts, if you have any questions or comments about how to think about the best ways to calculate the True Rating, we'll be building this into something even better in the near future 💪

      BEASTMODER34 TheKingCartii 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 20
      • QuantumKat QuantumKat
        President Founders LEGEND PS5 Ruby
        last edited by
        President Founders LEGEND PS5 Ruby

        Pinned!

        thumbs up

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 8
        • 11wakawaka 11wakawaka
          PS4 Ruby
          last edited by
          PS4 Ruby

          could you also possibly factor in dribble sigs for PG eligible cards?

          element 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
          • element element
            LEGEND XBOX S|X
            last edited by
            LEGEND XBOX S|X

            Just a couple that jumped out to me --

            98 Danny Ferry
            PF: 91.85% SF: 92.56%

            97 Tony Kukoc
            PF: 89.14% SF: 90.47%

            97 Don Ohl
            PG: 93.94% SG: 92.99%

            96 Alex Caruso
            PG: 93.82% SG: 93.37%

            97 Moses Malone
            C : 93.72% PF: 93.08%

            95 Bol Bol
            C : 90.11% PF: 89.78%

            You want to be aiming for 93+ at this point. As you can see model size, animations, badges can play a huge role in the card's actual in game ability (Ferry, Bol, Kukoc, etc) which is what we're looking to incorporate.

            QuantumKat Ismith111 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 4
            • element element
              LEGEND XBOX S|X
              @11wakawaka
              last edited by
              LEGEND XBOX S|X

              @11wakawaka We're going to try something like that, yes. The more subjective something is, the harder it is to quantify, but some of the dribble sigs are obviously 1000 x better than others so we don't want to exclude them. Same with shot release speed.

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
              • 11wakawaka 11wakawaka
                PS4 Ruby
                last edited by
                PS4 Ruby

                @element said in Element's True Ratings:

                97 Don Ohl
                PG: 93.94% SG: 92.99%

                oh yes...

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                • QuantumKat QuantumKat
                  President Founders LEGEND PS5 Ruby
                  @element
                  last edited by
                  President Founders LEGEND PS5 Ruby

                  @element yeah I look at Ferry and Kukoc and Bol and I'm like... this are quite literally the Top 3 cards in the game.

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                  • jase jase
                    LEGEND XB1 Ruby
                    last edited by
                    LEGEND XB1 Ruby

                    Any system that puts Owens above Rudy is SUS until further notice. 😬🤣

                    11wakawaka QuantumKat 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 4
                    • 11wakawaka 11wakawaka
                      PS4 Ruby
                      @jase
                      last edited by
                      PS4 Ruby

                      @jase agreed

                      Owens is great but Rudy is better

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                      • BEASTMODER34 BEASTMODER34
                        LEGEND PS4 new kids on the block Ruby
                        @element
                        last edited by
                        LEGEND PS4 new kids on the block Ruby

                        @element said in Element's True Ratings:

                        Billy Owens - 98 - IDOLS Series II VIP - 93.91
                        Rudy Gay - 98 - Warped Reality - 93.87

                        @Sssnaps
                        trash can
                        alert

                        element 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 5
                        • element element
                          LEGEND XBOX S|X
                          @BEASTMODER34
                          last edited by
                          LEGEND XBOX S|X

                          @beastmoder34

                          !2ku c billy owens

                          2KUbot BEASTMODER34 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
                          • 2KUbot 2KUbot
                            Emerald
                            @element
                            last edited by
                            Emerald

                            98 Billy Owens

                            Golden State Warriors - Premium IDOLS Series II VIP

                            HT: 6'8, WING: 7'2"
                            98_Billy Owens_IDOLS Series II VIP
                            (full stats at 2KDB)
                            Key Stats
                            89Shot 3pt
                            97Driving Dunk
                            96Speed
                            96Acceleration
                            93Speed With Ball
                            86Ball Handle
                            96Lateral Quickness
                            94Perimeter Defense
                            96Strength
                            90Interior Defense
                            94Block
                            92Offensive Rebound
                            90Defensive Rebound
                            94Pass Perception
                            Key Badges
                            GoldDeep Threes
                            GoldHot Zone Hunter
                            NoneBlinders
                            HOFPosterizer
                            HOFFearless Finisher
                            HOFSlithery Finisher
                            HOFQuick First Step
                            NoneDimer
                            HOFClamps
                            HOFIntimidator
                            GoldRim Protector
                            Key Animations
                            Damian LillardLower Base
                            Michael JordanUpper Release
                            Very QuickRelease Timing
                            QuickDribble Style
                            Pro 2Size Up Escape Packages
                            Pro 3Moving Behind The Back
                            Key Animations
                            Damian LillardLower Base
                            Michael JordanUpper Release
                            Very QuickRelease Timing
                            QuickDribble Style
                            Pro 2Size Up Escape Packages
                            Pro 3Moving Behind The Back
                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • BEASTMODER34 BEASTMODER34
                              LEGEND PS4 new kids on the block Ruby
                              @element
                              last edited by
                              LEGEND PS4 new kids on the block Ruby

                              @element I personally have never even used the card, I just know Sssnaps hates it

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                              • element element
                                LEGEND XBOX S|X
                                last edited by
                                LEGEND XBOX S|X

                                !2ku c rudy gay 98

                                2KUbot 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                • 2KUbot 2KUbot
                                  Emerald
                                  @element
                                  last edited by
                                  Emerald

                                  98 Rudy Gay

                                  Memphis Grizzlies - Premium Warped Reality

                                  HT: 6'8, WING: 7'3"
                                  98_Rudy Gay_Warped Reality
                                  (full stats at 2KDB)
                                  Key Stats
                                  93Shot 3pt
                                  98Driving Dunk
                                  95Speed
                                  95Acceleration
                                  93Speed With Ball
                                  90Ball Handle
                                  95Lateral Quickness
                                  94Perimeter Defense
                                  86Strength
                                  90Interior Defense
                                  90Block
                                  87Offensive Rebound
                                  89Defensive Rebound
                                  92Pass Perception
                                  Key Badges
                                  HOFDeep Threes
                                  GoldHot Zone Hunter
                                  NoneBlinders
                                  HOFPosterizer
                                  HOFFearless Finisher
                                  HOFSlithery Finisher
                                  HOFQuick First Step
                                  GoldDimer
                                  HOFClamps
                                  HOFIntimidator
                                  GoldRim Protector
                                  Key Animations
                                  Rudy GayLower Base
                                  Rudy GayUpper Release
                                  Very QuickRelease Timing
                                  QuickDribble Style
                                  Pro 2Size Up Escape Packages
                                  Pro 4Moving Behind The Back
                                  Key Animations
                                  Rudy GayLower Base
                                  Rudy GayUpper Release
                                  Very QuickRelease Timing
                                  QuickDribble Style
                                  Pro 2Size Up Escape Packages
                                  Pro 4Moving Behind The Back
                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • errolzzz errolzzz
                                    LEGEND XBOX S|X Locker Codes Ruby
                                    last edited by
                                    LEGEND XBOX S|X Locker Codes Ruby

                                    Oladipo is probably 00.01 @Sssnaps

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                    • jase jase
                                      LEGEND XB1 Ruby
                                      last edited by
                                      LEGEND XB1 Ruby

                                      HOF range and gold dimer on Rudy is the key info for me. Plus Rudy Gay shot is superior to Jordan in every way. Is Pro 3 BTB better than Pro 4? I can't recall. That might be a tick in Billy's column if so.

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                      • QuantumKat QuantumKat
                                        President Founders LEGEND PS5 Ruby
                                        @jase
                                        last edited by
                                        President Founders LEGEND PS5 Ruby

                                        @jase said in Element's True Ratings:

                                        Any system that puts Owens above Rudy is SUS until further notice. 😬🤣

                                        You spelled OBJECTIVE wrong.

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 5
                                        • Sp1ash Sp1ash
                                          PS5
                                          last edited by
                                          PS5

                                          J.R. Smith - 95.91 (7th)
                                          Trevor Ariza - 90.07 (equal 125th)

                                          I appreciate the effort so much @element, but would love to know how much of the ratings is based behind pure stats, and how much is based behind other factors? Because I can tell you right now Ariza > JR

                                          And this is coming from a standpoint where I though most of your ratings were relatively accurate last year

                                          jdealla 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                          • jdealla jdealla
                                            GM Ruby XBOX S|X PS5 SNIPER LEGEND Founders
                                            @Sp1ash
                                            last edited by
                                            GM Ruby XBOX S|X PS5 SNIPER LEGEND Founders

                                            @sp1ash said in Element's True Ratings:

                                            I appreciate the effort so much @element, but would love to know how much of the ratings is based behind pure stats, and how much is based behind other factors? Because I can tell you right now Ariza > JR

                                            It's all based on pure stats right now as @element said:

                                            True Ratings are a calculation based on the attributes of a card, weighted on importance per position (passing accuracy matters a lot for a PG, but not as much for a center, rebounding vice versa).

                                            I think a better question to help @element out in the future is what makes you say that Ariza is better than J.R.? that would be helpful in order to start thinking about what to focus on for quantifying factors that aren't immediately quantifiable.

                                            Sp1ash 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                            • Sp1ash Sp1ash
                                              PS5
                                              @jdealla
                                              last edited by
                                              PS5

                                              @jdealla Very fair point. Some aspects of what makes (in a vacuum) Ariza > JR:

                                              • Quicker release timing, and possibly a better base full stop
                                              • Slightly better dribble sigs
                                              • Height
                                              • Wingspan
                                              • Very, VERY slightly better defensive tendencies

                                              Not sure if you take into account importance of less relevant stats (such as post game). Obviously I don't know exactly how your ratings work, so I could be barking up the wrong tree, but those are just some aspects that I think could be helpful 🙂 apologies if I came off accusatory

                                              jdealla element 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 7
                                              • jdealla jdealla
                                                GM Ruby XBOX S|X PS5 SNIPER LEGEND Founders
                                                @Sp1ash
                                                last edited by
                                                GM Ruby XBOX S|X PS5 SNIPER LEGEND Founders

                                                @sp1ash said in Element's True Ratings:

                                                apologies if I came off accusatory

                                                nope not at all! feedback like this is exactly what will help @element make the ratings more robust

                                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 5
                                                • element element
                                                  LEGEND XBOX S|X
                                                  @Sp1ash
                                                  last edited by jdealla
                                                  LEGEND XBOX S|X

                                                  @sp1ash

                                                  Maybe this helps. These are the attribute weights per position. Sorry the format is janky but you can see what's happening here

                                                   PG	SG	SF	PF	Shooting C	Non-Shooting C
                                                   Shot_close	2	2	3	4	5	5
                                                   Shot_mid	4	4	4	3	3	1
                                                   Shot_3pt	4	5	4	3	3	0
                                                   Free_throw	4	4	4	3	3	2
                                                   Offensive_consistency	1	1	1	0.75	0.25	0.5
                                                   Driving_layup	4	3	3	2	2	2
                                                   Standing_dunk	0	0	0	3	5	5
                                                   Driving_dunk	2	3	5	3	3	3
                                                   Draw_foul	3	3	4	4	3	4
                                                   Post_moves	0	0	3	4	5	5
                                                   Post_hook	0	0	1	2	5	5
                                                   Post_fade	1	1	3	4	5	5
                                                   Hands	0	0	0	0	0	0
                                                   Speed	5	4	4	3	3	3
                                                   Acceleration	4	3	3	2	3	3
                                                   Vertical	2	2	3	4	4	4
                                                   Strength	1	1	3	4	5	5
                                                   Stamina	0	0	0	0	2	1
                                                   Hustle	0	0	0	0	0	0
                                                   Speed_with_ball	5	3	4	2	2	1
                                                   Ball_handle	5	2	2	1	1	1
                                                   Passing_accuracy	5	2	2	1	0	0
                                                   Passing_vision	0	0	0	0	0	0
                                                   Interior_defense	1	1	2	4	5	5
                                                   Perimeter_defense	5	5	4	3	2	2
                                                   Help_defense_IQ	0	0	1	3	1	4
                                                   Lateral_quickness	5	5	4	3	3	3
                                                   Pass_perception	0	0	0	0	0	0
                                                   Steal	3	3	3	1	2	1
                                                   Block	0	0	1	3	5	5
                                                   Defensive_consistency	3	4	3	4	4	4
                                                   Offensive_rebound	0.5	0.75	1	4	5	5
                                                   Defensive_rebound	0.5	0.75	1	4	5	5
                                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 5
                                                  • Ismith111 Ismith111
                                                    Gold
                                                    @element
                                                    last edited by
                                                    Gold

                                                    @element listen idk what it says for bol bol his true rating is a 99 lol

                                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 6
                                                    • ND13 ND13
                                                      XBOX S|X LEGEND Ruby
                                                      last edited by
                                                      XBOX S|X LEGEND Ruby

                                                      I think jumpers should factor into this. Like for example, a really really good jumper like 98 or ray allen could be 5 points, and a really bad jumper could be 0, or even negative points. It could also depend on position. You don’t need the absolute best jumper on your center

                                                      11wakawaka 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                      • 11wakawaka 11wakawaka
                                                        PS4 Ruby
                                                        @ND13
                                                        last edited by
                                                        PS4 Ruby

                                                        @nd13 malik sealy’s rating would skyrocket with this formula

                                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                        • TheKingCartii TheKingCartii
                                                          PS4 Ruby new kids on the block
                                                          @element
                                                          last edited by
                                                          PS4 Ruby new kids on the block

                                                          @element said in Element's True Ratings:

                                                          John Wall - 98 - All Star Spotlight Sim Completion Rewards - 96.18

                                                          The OG under 18's know.

                                                          11wakawaka N Sssnaps 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                                          • 11wakawaka 11wakawaka
                                                            PS4 Ruby
                                                            @TheKingCartii
                                                            last edited by
                                                            PS4 Ruby

                                                            @thekingcartii yes we do

                                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                            • N NotSmithboys1
                                                              new kids on the block
                                                              @TheKingCartii
                                                              last edited by
                                                              new kids on the block

                                                              @thekingcartii really a 99

                                                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                                              • Sssnaps Sssnaps
                                                                LEGEND PS4 Ruby new kids on the block
                                                                @TheKingCartii
                                                                last edited by
                                                                LEGEND PS4 Ruby new kids on the block

                                                                @thekingcartii should be an 9999 overall

                                                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                                • element element
                                                                  LEGEND XBOX S|X
                                                                  last edited by
                                                                  LEGEND XBOX S|X

                                                                  Top ten True Ratings after today's cards (all DM:)

                                                                  10 Shaquille O'Neal 97.29%
                                                                  9 Derrick Rose 97.33%
                                                                  8 Wilt Chamberlain 97.35%
                                                                  7 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 97.49%
                                                                  6 Blake Griffin 97.61%
                                                                  5 Zion Williamson 97.67%
                                                                  4 Vince Carter 97.71%
                                                                  3 Stephen Curry 97.74%
                                                                  2 Michael Jordan 97.85%
                                                                  1 Russell Westbrook 98.69%

                                                                  jdealla 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 6
                                                                  • jdealla jdealla
                                                                    GM Ruby XBOX S|X PS5 SNIPER LEGEND Founders
                                                                    @element
                                                                    last edited by
                                                                    GM Ruby XBOX S|X PS5 SNIPER LEGEND Founders

                                                                    @element Blake is great and is flying under the radar a bit bc of lack of curry and short arms, but he still manages to grab boards at an elite level and grab passing lane steals. I might keep him around

                                                                    QuantumKat 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                                    • QuantumKat QuantumKat
                                                                      President Founders LEGEND PS5 Ruby
                                                                      @jdealla
                                                                      last edited by
                                                                      President Founders LEGEND PS5 Ruby

                                                                      @jdealla yeah I'm not selling my Blake yet. Gotta see if Thon is actually better first. Might not be.

                                                                      jdealla 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                                      • jdealla jdealla
                                                                        GM Ruby XBOX S|X PS5 SNIPER LEGEND Founders
                                                                        @QuantumKat
                                                                        last edited by
                                                                        GM Ruby XBOX S|X PS5 SNIPER LEGEND Founders

                                                                        @quantumkat yea I'm coming to the same conclusion. nothing in this drop is making me want to splurge and get the card right away. I'm gonna wait and see.

                                                                        atgalex 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                                        • atgalex atgalex
                                                                          LEGEND PS5 Ruby
                                                                          @jdealla
                                                                          last edited by
                                                                          LEGEND PS5 Ruby

                                                                          @jdealla I don’t really like his jumper but he has hof range

                                                                          jdealla 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                                          • jdealla jdealla
                                                                            GM Ruby XBOX S|X PS5 SNIPER LEGEND Founders
                                                                            @atgalex
                                                                            last edited by
                                                                            GM Ruby XBOX S|X PS5 SNIPER LEGEND Founders

                                                                            @atgalex on next? I've ended up liking it a lot and I didn't expect to

                                                                            atgalex 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                                            • atgalex atgalex
                                                                              LEGEND PS5 Ruby
                                                                              @jdealla
                                                                              last edited by
                                                                              LEGEND PS5 Ruby

                                                                              @jdealla yeah next Im fully next now but I felt like he had a hitch

                                                                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                                              • element element
                                                                                LEGEND XBOX S|X
                                                                                last edited by
                                                                                LEGEND XBOX S|X

                                                                                True Rating 2.0 test, PG, with height, wingspan, badges, and tendencies factored

                                                                                10 Penny Hardaway 96.38%
                                                                                9 J.R. Smith 96.56%
                                                                                8 Kobe Bryant 96.67%
                                                                                7 Rajon Rondo 96.90%
                                                                                6 John Wall 96.96%
                                                                                5 Derrick Rose 97.39%
                                                                                4 Ben Simmons 97.43%
                                                                                3 Stephen Curry 97.65%
                                                                                2 Grant Hill 98.28%
                                                                                1 Russell Westbrook 98.64%

                                                                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                                                • element element
                                                                                  LEGEND XBOX S|X
                                                                                  last edited by element
                                                                                  LEGEND XBOX S|X

                                                                                  True Ratings 2.0 Beta

                                                                                  Top 20 at each position:

                                                                                  efe845a1-ba33-4268-8931-d4f1b3d696ef-image.png

                                                                                  Shinostique 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 10
                                                                                  • Shinostique Shinostique
                                                                                    Founders Coach LEGEND XBOX S|X Ruby
                                                                                    @element
                                                                                    last edited by
                                                                                    Founders Coach LEGEND XBOX S|X Ruby

                                                                                    @element said in Element's True Ratings:

                                                                                    True Ratings 2.0 Beta

                                                                                    Top 20 at each position:

                                                                                    efe845a1-ba33-4268-8931-d4f1b3d696ef-image.png

                                                                                    This is fantastic.

                                                                                    element 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                                                    • element element
                                                                                      LEGEND XBOX S|X
                                                                                      @Shinostique
                                                                                      last edited by
                                                                                      LEGEND XBOX S|X

                                                                                      @shinostique There are some notable absences in this list (Danny Ferry, Bol Bol, etc) but this does take badging, tendencies, height and wingspan into consideration... I think most people even if you're NMS or budget should have a lineup consisting of most of these players

                                                                                      jdealla 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                                                                      • jdealla jdealla
                                                                                        GM Ruby XBOX S|X PS5 SNIPER LEGEND Founders
                                                                                        @element
                                                                                        last edited by
                                                                                        GM Ruby XBOX S|X PS5 SNIPER LEGEND Founders

                                                                                        @element i'm interested in looking into it and building code to run it.

                                                                                        I think one thing that sticks out to me is that AI is above the rest, which is sort of a "code smell" so to speak.

                                                                                        Another thing is the non VQ releases seem to be higher than cards in the same tier with those that are on quick.

                                                                                        I guess it all depends on intent of what the ratings are measuring, but I think a good way to look at it is "meta consensus", ie who people with all the options are running at certain positions, and I don't think AI, Dame, Russ, or Rose are filling in that slot for PG

                                                                                        element 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                                                        • element element
                                                                                          LEGEND XBOX S|X
                                                                                          @jdealla
                                                                                          last edited by
                                                                                          LEGEND XBOX S|X

                                                                                          @jdealla I agree, there's two challenges to this

                                                                                          1 - Determining whether something like a dribble package, shot release, "ideal" position height is objectively better or not.
                                                                                          2 - Once identifying something that is objectively better, what's the appropriate way to scale it.

                                                                                          To address the Iverson thing, it could be something as simple as scaling the height penalty up way more. Right now it's simply that you get a 1% boost if you're a PG over 6'6". Very basic. But of course, height matters - every facet of the game is contingent upon height, so it's far from a subjective difference. So Iverson vs Wade at PG, height matters an equal amount, but obviously A.I. being 6'0 is objectively worse than Wade at 6'4". I'll find a better way to address it.

                                                                                          I've had much more trouble thinking of ways to deal with the animations. There's just inevitably going to be someone who thinks Pro 1 is the best and Pro 2 is overrated, etc. And I'm not a dribble god so I don't know the intricacies of which packages are better than others. But as you said, we should try to attack the notion of the 'meta consensus', i.e. in game mechanics, unique to each installment of NBA 2K, that are harder to counter, and if you don't do these things in competitive online play, you are objectively at a disadvantage. So if the curry slide is considered one of these things, we have to calculate it's importance and factor it in.

                                                                                          Same thing with shot releases. Base 11 from 2K19 was such a major advantage for cards - if you mastered the shot timing, you could go 24/25 from 3PT unless the opponent knew exactly how to stop it. But on the other hand, some people prefer a smooth, easy to green shot release vs the fastest release possible. How do we account for that? I'm not totally convinced that the fastest shot release is critical to objectively necessary in-game mechanics, even though they certainly are for me personally.

                                                                                          The purpose is to give everyone, regardless of play style, preferences, skill level, etc a way to evaluate how good a card really is in-game. Anyone can look at a card and say 'this card is ass' and they might be right, but when you're looking at 2 elite cards it's kind of tricky to say which one is truly better. The card overall rating provided by 2K is absolutely meaningless. There are really people out there that think that this year, a Dark Matter will ALWAYS be better than a Galaxy Opal card no questions asked, which is just wrong.

                                                                                          jdealla 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                                                          • 11wakawaka 11wakawaka
                                                                                            PS4 Ruby
                                                                                            last edited by
                                                                                            PS4 Ruby

                                                                                            @element said in Element's True Ratings:

                                                                                            I'll find a better way to address it.

                                                                                            maybe you could do it like this

                                                                                            The average height for a PG is 6’2

                                                                                            So the lower they go under that height

                                                                                            The lower the true rating goes

                                                                                            Do that for every position
                                                                                            Here are the average heights for each position in 2k
                                                                                            Average pg height: 6’3
                                                                                            Average Sg height: 6’5
                                                                                            Average sf height: 6’7
                                                                                            Average pf height: 6’9 1/2
                                                                                            Average c height: 6’11 1/2

                                                                                            So for example, let’s take Paul millsap’s opal
                                                                                            He’s 6’8
                                                                                            At PF, hes 1 1/2 inches below the average height
                                                                                            So his rating would go from 91.5 to 90 at pf
                                                                                            But at SF he’s an inch taller than average
                                                                                            So his rating at SF would go from 91.2 to 92.2

                                                                                            just my suggestion

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                                                                                            • jdealla jdealla
                                                                                              GM Ruby XBOX S|X PS5 SNIPER LEGEND Founders
                                                                                              @element
                                                                                              last edited by
                                                                                              GM Ruby XBOX S|X PS5 SNIPER LEGEND Founders

                                                                                              @element I think tiers are probably the only way to handle animations- the base 11 example you bring up is a good one thst makes the case for tiers since at some point it really is subjective.

                                                                                              I think for the most part we could bucket animations for all 2Ks - there are always elite animations (you get points), neutral animations (no change), and busted animations (negative points).

                                                                                              This would likely cover all cases. I think the weighing of each of these is a little more subjective about play style, but at the end of the day weighing anything is somewhat subjective. Although we can mitigate that with polling by getting data on what users think should be weighted more heavily

                                                                                              element 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                                                              • element element
                                                                                                LEGEND XBOX S|X
                                                                                                @jdealla
                                                                                                last edited by
                                                                                                LEGEND XBOX S|X

                                                                                                @jdealla Made some tweaks to penalize lower height and add points for taller players. I also added a very preliminary calculation to favor VQ & certain shot base/uppers.

                                                                                                PG

                                                                                                0847a336-e791-497e-bece-c4ddddd67046-image.png

                                                                                                C

                                                                                                989e4521-7e8a-430b-b306-ea1a454356d9-image.png

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                                                                                                • element element
                                                                                                  LEGEND XBOX S|X
                                                                                                  last edited by element
                                                                                                  LEGEND XBOX S|X

                                                                                                  True Rating 2.0 mini update incoming

                                                                                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 5
                                                                                                  • element element
                                                                                                    LEGEND XBOX S|X
                                                                                                    last edited by
                                                                                                    LEGEND XBOX S|X

                                                                                                    I was like something is wrong with the data, why is Invincible Magic having C as secondary position.

                                                                                                    I was today years old when I realized he actually is PG/C 😂

                                                                                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                                                                    • element element
                                                                                                      LEGEND XBOX S|X
                                                                                                      last edited by
                                                                                                      LEGEND XBOX S|X

                                                                                                      Top 25 POINT GUARDS (new rating system, factors height, wingspan, badges, tendencies, animations):

                                                                                                      0d041752-1c8f-4342-b9e5-84f9724a2cf9-image.png

                                                                                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 6
                                                                                                      • element element
                                                                                                        LEGEND XBOX S|X
                                                                                                        last edited by
                                                                                                        LEGEND XBOX S|X

                                                                                                        Top 25 SHOOTING GUARDS

                                                                                                        fd7b7d13-c9ed-440f-923a-a9cb2683d776-image.png

                                                                                                        You'll notice some cards go over 100%. WHAT IS THIS, THE SHOW? It's because I've boosted the impact of height quite a bit and it's not quite a round 100 at the moment.

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